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"Proudly forgetting over a decade of video games history"
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Rip-off, mod, or new game? |
|  | It's absolutely based on Beats of Rage. The guy posted an early version on our forums a few years ago (which simply crashed on startup). He basically just re-wrote everything with different names and/or syntax (because, as he once put it, the original wasn't "pretty"), but there's no question about where he got his ideas from. And yet the only mention of Beats of Rage or Senile Team seems to be these three "non-source code related" lines:
Code:
data/bgs/**/*.png - http://www.senileteam.com/games.php#bor.
data/chars/**/*.png - http://www.senileteam.com/games.php#bor.
data/sprites/**/*.png - http://www.senileteam.com/games.php#bor.
A bit meager, I would say. The word "rip-off" seems applicable. |
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| | I tried this earlier. It's pretty bad. The gameplay is heavily flawed, and the characters are completely unbalanced.
However, to say that this is all his work is laughable. Most of the stages in there are from BOR. The only ones I've seen that aren't from BOR are the one which has the Chinese alleyway from KOF99 as a background and the 4 versus backgrounds that are from Mortal Kombat 3 (tower roof and Shao Kahn's chamber) and Alpha 2 (Chun Li and Rose).
He's even kept Kula, Max and Mandy in there without changing their sprites or names. You can tell he didn't make them, because their shadows don't move around.
The only reference to Senile Team isn't just those lines of code. Everyone's assumptions are well and truly confirmed when you look in the sprites folder. Coincidence? I doubt it. I've included them for anyone who wants to see. |
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| | I also like the fact that he claimed the original BOR wasn't pretty, yet there's nothing much that's attractive about PainTown. |
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| | The gameplay is in need of adjusting (character movement isn't right), and overall the amount of options are limited for modders. However, he has done two things I consider of benefit:
PNG usage & a level maker (although it's still a bit crude).
Personally I still prefer OpenBor over Pain Town, but since he did use the original Bor as a base for his code rewriting, I consider this part of the Bor family tree (distant cousin). |
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| | I little credit would be nice, but the game overall is really not half bad. It has cpu co-op and png usage, which is really really helpful (not so much as the cpu co-op, more of the png usage).
So yeah, if he would give up some credit, the game would definitly have some potential. |
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| | Hola, this is the author of paintown. Feel free to email me to verify that this post is authentic( kazzmir@users.sf.net ).
Quote: | He basically just re-wrote everything with different names and/or syntax (because, as he once put it, the original wasn't "pretty"), |
It sounds like you are saying I took the original code and renamed some things. This is entirely untrue. I used 0% of the original BOR source code.
Quote: | However, to say that this is all his work is laughable. Most of the stages in there are from BOR. The only ones I've seen that aren't from BOR are the one which has the Chinese alleyway from KOF99 as a background and the 4 versus backgrounds that are from Mortal Kombat 3 (tower roof and Shao Kahn's chamber) and Alpha 2 (Chun Li and Rose). |
I am a programmer, I have virtually no art talent so I took things from the web. I got a bit lazy in saying who made what in the README, but I don't claim to have made everything. More than anything, paintown is an engine that can accept any graphics.
Quote: | He's even kept Kula, Max and Mandy in there without changing their sprites or names. You can tell he didn't make them, because their shadows don't move around. |
Yes I used their graphics, but I completely redid their configuration files and how the animations work as well as combo handling.
Quote: | Couldn't you return the favour and rip the network-code? |
I know the network code is shoddy, it was sort of a quick hack and I had a lot of problems on windows. I'll clean it up at some point.
Quote: | I also like the fact that he claimed the original BOR wasn't pretty, yet there's nothing much that's attractive about PainTown. |
Sorry, I meant the source code specifically. BOR is a great game.
Quote: | Personally I still prefer OpenBor over Pain Town, but since he did use the original Bor as a base for his code rewriting, I consider this part of the Bor family tree (distant cousin). |
I doubt you actually looked at the source code to paintown and instead read my original blog post about it, written 4 year ago, mentioning that I was going to look at the source of BOR.
Sorry if people think I "ripped off" BOR. The creators of BOR said it was ok to use the graphics last time I asked anyway, and its not like the sprites to BOR were original anyway since they came from KOF. I am still hoping to replace all the BOR graphics with original and free graphics so that it can be included in various linux distros as well as having a clean feeling to it. I had started to write a river city ransom clone using the paintown engine as well but graphics are hard to come by. |
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| | Of course it is true that (most of) the sprites in Beats of Rage were taken from King of Fighters. But we've always said so. Just like we've always been completely open about the fact that the title, the mechanics and many other aspects of the game are copies/re-creations of the Streets of Rage series.
You, on the other hand, don't appear to be so open. You fail to credit anyone but yourself, even though I can immediately point out a multitude of elements which I have personally created as soon as I open your site.
You say you've written the code for Pain Town yourself, and that is fine. No arguments there. But if you deny the fact that it was built on a foundation laid by others, you are fooling no one but yourself. Changing names and data files won't change a thing about that.
Now, you may feel like some of the things said in this discussion were harsh, or even wrong. But you've got yourself to blame. If you try to take undue credit, you get the shame with it.
I hope you take better decisions in the future. |
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| | Quote: | the mechanics and many other aspects of the game are copies/re-creations of the Streets of Rage series. |
This is where I got most of my inspiration as well.
Quote: | even though I can immediately point out a multitude of elements which I have personally created as soon as I open your site. |
Ok, like what.
Quote: | But if you deny the fact that it was built on a foundation laid by others, you are fooling no one but yourself. Changing names and data files won't change a thing about that. |
I initially looked at BOR to see how the game mechanincs worked but honestly I never played past level one and after a few weeks I stopped looking at BOR altogether and just did whatever I felt like( which non-coincidentally resembles BOR because all fighting games are basically the same ).
Look at my other game, rafkill. It was based on raptor: call of the shadows and I had originally called it "raptor", too. Of course I couldn't get the graphics for raptor so I just made my own. The game doesn't look great but would you call it a ripoff of raptor? It has similar game mechanics in that you can shoot and move around.. I'm sure if I put in original raptor graphics then raptor fanboys would claim "ripoff!" as well.
http://raptorv2.sf.net
The reason I used BOR in the first place was that the source and data were easily attainable. "ripoff" has a harsh conotation.. but clone is a reasonable way to deescribe it. I don't know what people are so mad about. Do you feel that I repackaged your hard work and claim it as my own? |
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You want me to prove something that you and everyone here already know? What the hell is wrong with you? You're dwelling on a station we've all passed long ago. The only question that remained was: are you man enough to stand behind your own actions? Obviously, you're not.
Now get the **** out of my face. |
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